The Sundering of the Community - UB Anet's Double-Edged Sword

[Risa]

If people want to cheapen their gameplay experience by using UB, then they can go right ahead. It's just less and less respect for them for taking the cheap way out. Then again, the game's community has next-to-none respect for anyone else, so nothing really changes there.

[DivineEnvoy]

Originally Posted by Marcus Ferret

No, they aren't the 'ultimate PvE invinci guild', as I believe there to be many great PvE guilds out there - SoF being one of them. However, they are a guild which I have had the pleasure of running with and my reference was to show that an area can be cleared just as fast if not faster without UB, albeit with more skill and organisation involved. (Believe me, should I have had invitations and the privilege of running with members of other guilds, I would have made the appropriate acknowledgements as well.)

DoA is a tough area to master, and failing an area over and over again generally leads to frustration for players who feel that the time and effort should be spent doing something else. The players I have had the privilege of teaming up with however persevered and came up with a build, which although utilised PvE skills such as TNTF and SY, helped many players accomplish what was thought to be impossible - i.e. Mallyx's demise.

True, it would seem that many professions are still without a place in DoA 'para teams' but that is only half of it. The build itself can be run by 4 players with 4 heroes, and given some thought and organisation, could easily include any profession. Defense wise, it may not be as solid as a team running 3-4 paragons but where offense is concerned, it should be able to cope with whatever DoA has to offer - albeit, with careful aggro and mob control.

As I mentioned above, perseverance is what makes it all possible as I doubt that even Anet staff managed to get DoA done on their first attempt without resorting to some form of code for God-mode. Yes, frustration will eventually get the better of us and at the end of the day, if there is an easier way of doing things which does not violate gaming regulations, why not make the best of it?

UB provides players with the lack of gaming time to experience as well as complete elite areas and that is a good thing as I personally know of players who have played the game for two years but have logged less than 1000 hours. However, UB adds very little to a player's gaming knowledge and experience. GW is suppose to be a game of skill and skills. A player who learns and adapts the numerous skills provided for both primary and secondary professions of his/her character is more likely to increase his/her playing skill than a player who transform into a bear and utilises the three attack skills provided.

Entertainment wise, both provide their own variation of fun depending on a player's preference and needs when it's game time. For fast runs through an elite mission when I have friends or guildies who have a tight schedule, I run UB. For boring, repeatable missions, I run UB. However, my preference will always be for a balanced setup as that is where I am able to shine, or learn if I fail.

As most of you have pointed out, GW is afterall a game so who cares what a player runs as long as it gets the job done. Partly true, UB is a Norn skill, Norns are part of the expansion GW:EN, GW:EN is a prelude to GW2, GW2 is the future of GW... So, is this really what we want? Single skills that will carry us through an entire game without the need for thought or effort? If that's the case, Aion here I come...

These are merely my own personal opinions, but I feel that this discussion should have an impact on what developers of GW2 are currently working on. Thus, I hope that everyone will hopefully be able to keep their posts sensible and not resort to flaming individuals, etc. It is afterall a game, and one which we all love...

I agree with you that entitlement of learning the game fundamentals is needed, otherwise some meanings to challenge one's self will be lost. However, in saying this, I find that everyone has a different standard to what an entitlement is. What troubles me about these UB threads is that there are always people who try to force their standards on other people. Although it is best to determine the equilibrium standard to what an entitlement is to please both parties, not much progress has been made to this point.

Secondly, I have to admit that learning the fundamentals should be mandatory to the game. Nevetheless, Ursan Blessing is not the only factor that limits the learning of the players. There are usually an experienced player among every pick up groups, and this player will usually instruct other players what to do. Hence, the other party members will just depend on this experienced player and wing the quest/mission. I guess some people do manage to learn that way, but what I'm trying to say is, learning the fundamentals will not be affected by a single skill, but it is truly affected by the players themselves. Relevantly, there is not much we can do about players themselves.

Like you said, Ursan Blessing is part of the Norn skill, but more closely, it is really a demo to their bear forms. Since new races are not avaliable in the first Guild wars, I can see why Anet decides to put a demo in the game to advertise Norns. Although it is still unknown to what exactly will the bear form behave in Guild Wars 2, we can assume that it will be in Guild Wars 2. I guess Ursan Blessing is really a test to see how the community will react to the future fundamentals of the norn and what possible balances can be made. If it's really overpowered as some of you claimed it to be, it will be nerfed. It is rather pointless to have a second thread made to this topic: I don't see how the designers of Anet will be affected by the same people who are making the same posts.

[Cacheelma]

At the end of the day, I don't see Anet fixing this issue anytime soon.

Why, you ask? GWEN if aimed for PvE players. And with this super-powerful skill available, people will be more likely to buy GWEN if they want to...you know... get on par with other people in PvE (but then they can play subpar for some reasons it don't matter).

Broken skills in the new expansion = more money for Anet. GG players. This has been done in the previous campaigns too but they had to fix it eventually because the effects on PvP. But that's not the case here, right?

Of course you could say people don't have to buy it (I haven't), or that they don't have to use the skills (who in their right mind wouldn't, if they could?). But that's what YOU would do, right? Playing subpar with subpar skills? I doubt it.

[manitoba1073]

Its not overpowered simple as that as I said in the other thread on it.

Funny how noone who says it is overpowered hasnt Pmed me yet ingame to do it solo against simple NM lvl 14 - lvl 18 creatures. Must be they are afraid the so-called overpowered skill really cant handle it.

Now the real problem is actually the fact you guys are using 6 of them with 2 monks with consumables. Though you can say that about almost any skill in game. Think of the rampant PvPers. No different than there spike builds...

The real way to solve the problem would be to limit it to 3 ursans only in a full group of 8. As the majority of people wont be using it in full groups.


Sad to see some well known people not having a clue that the skill really isnt overpowered and that only the way it is being used is overpowered. Actually not sad but rather pathetic really figured they'd know better about skills by know.

[Antheus]

Originally Posted by Risa

If people want to cheapen their gameplay experience by using UB, then they can go right ahead. It's just less and less respect for them for taking the cheap way out. Then again, the game's community has next-to-none respect for anyone else, so nothing really changes there.

Those seeking respect in online games will always find themselves disappointed.

Except that for some, this realization will be either world shattering or a very rude awakening at least.

There are select individuals which have earned their respect in pvp scene. But almost none of them care about it - they are in it for the money alone.

[Shaz]

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Sad to see some well known people not having a clue that the skill really isnt overpowered.

Sad to see you don't know how to identify overpowered skills. Being able to or not able to solo something is not what determine if a skill is overpowered or not.

[Cherrie]

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Funny how noone who says it is overpowered hasnt Pmed me yet ingame to do it solo against simple NM lvl 14 - lvl 18 creatures. Must be they are afraid the so-called overpowered skill really cant handle it.

Um, I think you lost a point in here. The power of Ursan blessing shows itself only in high lvl areas in a way that all armor-ignoring skills do.
Mesmer or Necro skills are less effective againts creatures with less def because they always dead fixed dmg, which usually aint that much... especially compared to dmg other direct-damage classes can deal in the same case. Their true power shows when opponent's armor is high - they still deal same damage... but more than direct damage can deal.
Bear's "paws" are armor-ignoring and this is why testing the skill on low-lvl creatures is pointless.

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Now the real problem is actually the fact you guys are using 6 of them with 2 monks with consumables. (...) The real way to solve the problem would be to limit it to 3 ursans only in a full group of 8. As the majority of people wont be using it in full groups.

Might be but taht would be the only skill with such restrictions, a precedence. Precedenses are bad! They're too risky.

[Frank Dudenstein]

This reminds me of the old battle.net days of Diable (I). There was widespread duping/hacking ... and you could easily power through the game invulnerable with your Godly Plate of the Whale and such.

However a small percentage of players insisted on running 'legit' groups ... and continued to do so (though the cheaters were constantly trying to get into the groups and ruin the fun).

Now ... was the game better because you could play it any way you want? Or would it have been better without all of the cheat/hacks.

Personally, I think it's better without the cheating ... but everyone has their own opinion. I guess if enough people want godmode ... they will get it ...

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Trub

Why bother being anything (rit, ranger, ele, mesmer) when it's just to run around slamming 1 button in your purdy armour?

How would you feel if the skill had half of it's usage determined by say Strength, similar to "There's Nothing To Fear"?

Please don't read this with a cynical tone, by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

[Shaz]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

How would you feel if the skill had half of it's usage determined by say Strength, similar to "There's Nothing To Fear"?

Please don't read this with a cynical tone, by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

That could be one way to fix it. Though the main problem I have with the skill is it ability to bypass all form of shutdown (except major edenial). If they make the attack into melee and is susceptible to conditions and hexes, it would be less retarded and still be pretty good to use. As melee hate in pve is not that great, except maybe Shards of Orr. Oh, and make it not armor ignoring damage too.

[Joe Fierce]

Originally Posted by Trub

Divine Envoy wrote:


If there is anything I may be able to clarify, please...just ask..
As I stated before, most of my guild feels very strongly about this topic because we are concerned that UB will be the ONLY way new players to GW will even comprehend what a 'skill bar' is.
And that isn't fair to anyone.
Why bother being anything (rit, ranger, ele, mesmer) when it's just to run around slamming 1 button in your purdy armour?

I can agree with that more than you would know, while UB is great for completing doa on your mes ranger or sin (not because they don't fit in a build for the zone but because nubs refuse to think outside the box) most people are treating it like the holy grail and i believe that seriously destroys the strategy aspect of the game. although i am more than guilty of running my ranger through doa with it, it did not give me the same satisfaction as when i had tanked through it on my tank all those numerous times, or bipped nuked or monked for it, for these were acomplishments, runs in which strategy actually was required (well, more strategy then beating your face into your keyboard).... and as for anyone accusing of sms getting in an uproar about their armbrace farming, 600/smite or E/A much?

if they were that concerned i'm sure they'd be b****ing about that as well....and surprise surprise, they aren't!

/signed that UB should be nerfed......... but seriously, why not nerf it just enough that actually makes it need some amount of skill? (turning it into an enchantment would work eh?)

but in all seriousness i deny in no way that UB is the most unbalanced skill in the game currently, and that something needs to be done.

-joe fierce

[Trub]

I don't quite understand the anology?
I play a rit/ranger....not a paragon.
As I stated before....all the professions in GW are to grant a team a challenge to balance, I run a rit..I look like a rit, and I shoot alot of arrows very very fast.
We have a paragon in our team, he runs a PARAGON bar...as to if the skill set he/she has in their bar, i wouldn't know...other than it is a paragon skill bar.
if your leaning in the direction of ANet re creating the Ursan Blessing to be more profession specific (i.e. warrior strength, monk devine favor ect)
That wouldn't really make sense.
Once Ursan Blessing is activated, all 'profession specific' skills are disabled.
But thank you for your honesty and strait forward question..

[unienaule]

Melee attack would be good, non-armor ignoring might make it trash though.

[bryann380]

Here's a way to end this entire "UB overpowered" debate once and for all. Change all the Blessing skills so that you don't gain energy from them and modify UB's Ursan Strike so that it's not armor ignoring. Problem solved.

[mrmango]

Originally Posted by bryann380

Here's a way to end this entire "UB overpowered" debate once and for all. Change all the Blessing skills so that you don't gain energy from them and modify UB's Ursan Strike so that it's not armor ignoring. Problem solved.

But we want to be able to use it without it totally sucking, or just sucking. That change would make it suck.

[Avarre]

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

Its all about choice, and it doesnt effect you, it just makes you think... "hey i learnt how to play the game, this was supposed to be skill over time, how come you can do the same things without any skill and without learning?"

Fixed.

PvE skills are a degradation of the concept of Guild Wars. The support of players who want things handed to them helps drive the shift from skill to grind. Why should I have to play the way you want because you're lazy?

I want Guild Wars back.

[mrmango]

I mostly agree with you, but they'll say:
Why should I have to play like you?

[Avarre]

Originally Posted by mrmango

I mostly agree with you, but they'll say:
Why should I have to play like you?

That line or argument is letting getting a job making a certain thing and asking "Why do I have to make the same things as you?". It's because that's what the job requirements are!

Guild Wars has been continually warped to a less interesting game by the segregation of the community between PvE and PvP, creating a boring, one-dimensional PvE lolzfest that takes no skill to blow through areas. The people who support this have no place to stand by saying 'Why should I play like you', when 'playing like "me"' is playing Guild Wars, and playing like them is playing an idiotic grind which is closer to certain other games on the market than what the original game design was.

In summary, for all those who don't want to play the game the way the older players play it; stop supporting the change in game design from a quality game to yet another generic mmo with your badness.

[Tauren Arcanist]

Have you ever even been in a group with 4 SF nukers? A decent tank and 4 SF's can clear UW just as fast as Ursanway.

Please dont give us this Overpowered UB Bs.
It does not remove all the strategy.
Because one PUG UB Who takes a quest he's no supposed to = End of run.
Granted it takes little skill to know what skills to and not to except
but pugs NEVER cease to amaze me with their stupidity.
And since when was anything in GW PvE Ever challenging?
So now instead of 10 cookie cutters we have one really big, really sharp cookie cutter.
Makes things much simpler I think.

[mrmango]

Too bad they're too lazy to do that, or whatever.